Let me begin by asking a question: If you were President of the United States on September 11th, would you initiate an investigation to determine what security lapses had occurred to allow such a tragedy to unfold? Of course you would. The only reason you would try to prevent an investigation is if you had something to hide. If your house was broken into and your family murdered, would you ask the police to not investigate and try to block the investigation? NO. Unless you were somehow involved. How could anyone not wish to investigate what had allowed the 9-11 attacks to transpire?
This is exactly what George W Bush did. The Bush administration tried to prevent the formation of the 9-11 committee.(1) Why would the president not feel it was necessary to investigate this? George W. Bush tried to prevent the 9-11 investigation from happening. When that fight was lost Bush tried to appoint Henry Kissinger to head the commission. After worldwide howls of outrage and plenty of conflicts of interest questions about Kissinger, Kissinger was replaced by Thomas Kean. Bush then took steps at every turn to hinder the investigators.(2) At times, Bush even prevented the committee from having access to their own notes.(3) He even tried to prevent his National Security Advisor from testifying. When he finally relented on that, he tried to prevent her from being required to testify under oath.(4) Why would you ever set standards for ones testimony to not include the promise to tell the truth unless the truth would somehow be damaging to your official story? Finally, Condoleeza Rice did testify under oath. Of course, we know how much that oath means to this administration. President Bush has appointed several people to prominent government positions who have already proven their willingness to lie to Congress. Appointing convicted felons to government offices is bad. Appointing convicted felons guilty of lying to Congress (5) is to spit in the face of the American people and a blatant display of the disregard this administration has for our very democracy, Congress, Constitution, and the rule of law.
This is a very relevant question. I have thought of that many times. Of course they have something to hide; we just don't know what and how much. Only a new investigation can reveal the truth.
That's why they're busy trying to revise the War Crimes Act. What happens if voters really do clean house?
Bush knows perfectly well he's a war criminal. He just wants to make sure he's above any law that could harm him. It's so disgraceful and disgusting.
That's why they're busy trying to revise the War Crimes Act.
If you don't believe anything about the "9/11 conspiracy", then the revision of the War Crimes Act should, at the very least, raise a red flag.
Why would they go out of their way to add a "limitation statute" to a law that protects all of us from tyranny and murder?
There are far more pressing issues at hand these days.
Like tyranny and murder...
This looks like an interesting film
If you are at all prone to believe 9/11 conspiracy theories or any other sort of conspiracy theories, you should check out this collection of articles with a specific subsection on 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Conspiracism is not only misguided, but dangerous. And it hijacks needed analysis of what's really going on.
Scapegoating and conspiracist allegations are tools that can be used by cynical leaders to mobilize a mass following. Supremacist and fascist organizers use conspiracist theories as a relatively less-threatening entry point in making contact with potential recruits.
That's exactly what these same people were saying about Watergate. Thanks to Presidential pardons they lived to serve again during the Iran Contra scandal and again during this Administration.
To label the 9/11 tragedy a conspiracy theory is a misnomer. People did conspire to attack us on 9/11 that's a fact, not a theory. The only questions that remain are who knew what and when.
There is a difference between thorough, investigative journalism and conspiracism. You should know as much as you can about conspiracism if you are interested in any conspiracy theory in order to avoid it and better evaluate "evidence" provided by others.
The problem with accusations of conspiracism is that they are often used to put down opinions that parties with ulterior motives don't want to be heard. For example, claims that the Bush administration lied to get us into Iraq were often condemned as conspiracism by those who were promoting that war.
I don't think that the towers were detonated, since simply plowing two airplanes into them would have been sufficiently dramatic, even had they stood. Placing demolition charges would have been a very difficult task, and one that would have left an actual administration conspiracy to destroy the towers much more vulnerable to discovery. The towers collapsed from the top down, whereas a standard implosion collapses from the bottom. Had the towers been blown up with intention of creating maximum damage, an off-center explosion at the bottom would have caused them to topple sideways, leaving a larger destructive footprint than the top-down collapse that occurred.
The floor-by-floor, top-down collapse is in character with the conventional explanation that the heat of the flames weakened the upper floors' suspension cables, and when the upper floors began collapsing, the shock of their impact caused each subsequent floor to fail.
On the other hand, I do think there is a great deal of evidence that the administration was aware that there was some sort of plot in the wind and that they hoped to profit from it, and the conspiracists who are gathering facts and pointing out inconsistencies are doing a valuable service, even if they are working from false premises.
Each of us has to make the personal effort to sort the information from the disinformation, but this is no different than any other situation, be it a casual conversation or a political speech. I have no doubt that some of the conspiracists are disinformation specialists who are working purely to muddy the waters and discredit valid facts. Everything you hear has to be run through a filter of plausibility, internal consistency, and coherence with known facts and physical principles, since even the most well-meaning theorist could be either misinformed or deluded.
The label "conspiracist" is not a valid filter, it is a short-cut used to avoid thinking critically.
The label "conspiracist" is not a valid filter, it is a short-cut used to avoid thinking critically.
That's a great line and a valuable insight. You'll get the chance to use it a lot on the vine between now and 9/11.
The first question that you should ask when a crime is committed is, "who benefited from this crime?". That person or persons should then become your prime suspect.
Did the pope also oppose an investigation?
Whether our government was negligent, complacent, or culpable is irrelevant, they were responsible. You can joke about this tragedy all that you want but when the truth does come out you'll be laughing out your ass.
The funniest thing about your comment, McDade, is that you obviously think it's clever.
Here is a documentary, (not a docudrama), that is based on everything that we know about 9/11 from the complete 9/11 time line.
I find this to be a very valid question, despite those who don't even want to consider government complicity. At a global level, one only needs a little imagination to see the possibility of those in extreme power using a "the ends justify the means" type of rationalization/reasoning to justify actions that we would deem unconscionable.
While I agree that it is important to keep conspiracy theories in check, it is logical to be puzzled by the Bush administration's bending over backwards to prevent inquiry into an event that has served as the justification for so many arguably dubious policy shifts.
It is prudent not to jump to conspiratorial conclusions without evidence; however, it is just as prudent to remain moderately skeptical.
Much like Operation Northwoods or Rex 84 completely unbelievable but completely true.
Those projects certainly put "it can't happen here" in its place.
Not for anyone who's convinced the 9-11 conspiracy theories are simply insane ramblings of the tin-foil hat crowd.
Big Brother loves you. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
I don't know that Bush is the main criminal. My opinion has always been that he is just the faceman for the people who are really in charge.
I get the impression that Cheney and Rumsfeld are much closer to the source than Bush. I think this is why Colin Powell got out of there- he probably started to get wind of what was really going on.
Bush is just a scapegoat. They put him out there and have him sell the story to the people. All of the actual decisions are made by Cheny, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc. Why do you think the President insists he's "the decider"? Why would he have to tell us that over and over if it wasn't questionable.
Exactly, whomever runs on the '08 Republican ticket will also be a PNAC shill.
Just to offer an alternative to the complicity explanation
but incompetence is also a reasonably believable excuse.
While we cant find out , while noone will investigate, i just think both are equallylikely to be true, They fought hard to hid the intelligence estimate, that said bin ladin determined to attack in the us.
Just saying it is a good possibility they dont want you to know that a bunch of idiots run the government.
Want to be more outraged? Loose Change: the 911 cover up.
Great questions,Pamela. My own suspicion is that the White House knew that AQ had something planned, and were planning to use it as an excuse to invade Iraq. They just didn't know how big it was going to be.
If they had known more, they would have had Bush's reaction choreographed, instead of having him run around the country like a scared rabbit trying to find someplace to hide. It took about 12 hours for them to get over the enormity of what they had allowed and get back with the program of using it.
At the very least I would say this is the case. It could be much worse.
If you had asked me if the US would routinely use torture a few years ago I would have called you crazy.
When your country is run by people devoid of any morals anything is possible.
When the History Channel did their official story episodes of the event it made people that are uninformed think that they know exactly what happened.It goes to show in this day and age to many people put to much trust in the ultimate propaganda machine...the television.They say they are going to show the Loose Change film on sept. 11th 2006 and I hope they do.The smoking gun that hasn't been officially explained is building number 7 which the owner said on a PBS interview "we decided to pull it" which is a demolition term.
Seems like the Iranians also think there was a hidden agenda: U.S., Israel ordered September 11 attacks.
If you were President of the United States on September 11th, would you initiate an investigation to determine what security lapses had occurred to allow such a tragedy to unfold? Of course you would. The only reason you would try to prevent an investigation is if you had something to hide.
Just a cursory investigation into why 9/11 hap pend points to the Clinton administration and their negligence in foreign policy and national security. Crazy time lines and conspiracy theories need not be sought and analyzed because all you have to do is look to the Gorelick wall. You don't hear much about it in the media because it hurts the Democrats and bolsters the Republicans and President Bush. We all wanted the government to connect the dots. Well, under Bill Clinton they couldn't even communicate that there were dots to connect.
President Bush seems to be too decent a man to allow a previous President to be taken down in such a manner. I don't think President Clinton or any other of the current crop of Democrats would have been or will be so kind if given the opportunity.
You wish. Like Clinton received a memo saying "OBL determined to strike within America" and stayed on vacation, right?
Forget it, Bassir, someone who thinks Bush seems decent is living in perpendicular universe. I'd offer to trade presidents with him, but it would be too cruel.
All the myths about the "9/11 conspiracy" can be proved wrong, as Popular Mechanics did here.
Dom Pody...All the myths about the "9/11 conspiracy" can be proved wrong, as Popular Mechanics did here.
Unfortunately there are many problems with the PM piece beginning with the fact that none of the senior "science" writers authored the piece and it was done by, I think it's nephew of Chertoff. Not by itself a problem but we begin with a conflict of interest in a piece which by nature demands the highest level of objectivity. There are other issues which are itemized in two articles here and here. They're far more technical and far better than I could do them. My focus is not structural.
PM has no explaination for how WTC 7 falls when it was hit by nothing. Here's my view of that one.
This is a bunch of crap!
Touche.
Nicely articulated perspective, it reflects well on you conclusions.
I think this is an important conversation to be had, about whether the government had any involvement in the actions that took place on 9/11. If you come out saying that everyone who has these conspiracy theories is wrong and crazy, then Watergate would have never been revealed.
While I myself do not believe that the government had a hand in bringing down two pillars holding up the new york city skyline, I do believe that they may have turned a blind eye to intelligence of an imminent terrorist threat.
However, it would not greatly surprise me if the Bush administration had participated in/encouraged the actions of September 11th, because the reaction they have taken has lead to no action being taken against Osama Bin Laden, and instead Bush and company have spun Sept. 11 into just cause for the broad "War on Terror" that we are fighting in Iraq to secure the "United States' oil interest in the Middle East", which will/has lead to nothing but money for Dick Cheney and his fellow oil tycoons.
Once again, so nobody misses the point of this comment, I think that conspiracy theories need to be treated as legitimate opinions that need to be considered and, after a period of fair consideration, judged. And most conspiracy theories, when scrutinized, fall apart and turn out to be just conspiracy theories and can be ignored. This process is not at all harmful to the nation and is only conducive to a more transparent and people aware government.
Theory or not, the attacks on 9/11 have given the Bush admin, (A.K.A. PNAC), unprecedented power indefinitely. The GWOT, (Global War On Terror, Gee what?), can go on forever. When will we know when the last terrorist is killed or captured?
Nicely put Firago.there is a massive 9/11 truth movement that has held discussions with a panel of professors and scientists that was aired on CSPAN2 weeks ago.The American Scholars Symposium on 911 in Los Angeles can be viewed at: (hour and a half) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5004704309041471296&q=cspan+911
Alex Jones is one of the main guys in this movement and one of his sites is at www.infowars.com
Bush will be impeached when the Dems take Congress! I can't wait.
also clinton was in the process of or being impeached for the last two years of his term, not alot to be done on any front with regards to anything...so who was hounding his ass again? -c
Wow....So..hey "Categorythreegonetotallyoutthereonthisone" or what ever you call your self. I do not know if you will get this since I didn't get yours and am quite happy for that I believe...lol! but anyways,Are you really saying that you can compare a guy getting impeached for having lied about whether or not he has had a BJ ~with traditional cigar still attached
~and a guy who has been thoroughly proved to be lying again and again about less important things then some, but also lying and deceiving a whole nation...no wait......this whole globe on them whys and needs to go to wars against this and that Nation for this or that reason...?
That's why we call him the great deceiver.
I have been thinking about something for quite a while now. and I would like to share this thought and idea with those of you in here with a bit more between your ears then many "Sleepy and ignorantly content ones" out there. Does anybody have a clue as of how old them ideas of "PNAC" really is? Or does anyone know if there have been or/and still is a firmly constructed and organized structure behind the (so far as presented) quite loose gathering of power figures that has been proved to exist? They call it a think tank or something like that, but what are they really all about? And finally, how come that something like this organisation can exist and their extremely none-democratic thoughts and ideas become published for the public to see and read and still, There aren't any real outcry from the Nation at all? It gives me the chill to know how easy it seems to be to walk in to the highest seat of office by means of fraud and a bought election, take the opportunity of a National as well as International tragedy, put a loose puppet upfront who is so weird and easily monitored and manipulated, have people read time and again horrific ideas that has ones signatures all over them and from which one never even have to cowardly retreat from by denying or blaming it all on stupidity by a youthful mind, put the logs onto the fire when a man who childishly and utterly revengeful wanted to straighten up his fathers mistakes and thus they helped in having this mentally fragile President in leading the whole world towards those wars that they had planned for all the time and that were needed for their goal to succeed....The rise of their Empire.
PNAC is the Project for the New American Century.It is a controversial,non-profit organisation that doesn't have to pay taxes that was established in 1997.It's a neo-con,DC based think-tank that proposes military,economic, space, cyberspace, and global domination by the United States, so as to establish or maintain American dominance in world affairs (Pax Americana).Some say they are the masterminds behind sept. 11th and that the war on terror is just a step to further their agenda.Whether these allegations are true or not,they are organised and they are real.A partial list of members as of 2004 is here: http://www.reasoned.org/e_PNAC2.htm
The second answer to your post,"Why isn't there any real outcry from the Nation at all?" is the masses (for the most part) are complacent and uninformed.Our culture has been hi-jacked by entertainment on a narcissistic level.This of course has been going on unchecked over the decades and with a snowballing effect.I don't know if you're familiar with Aldous Huxleys book "A Brave New World" but if offers much insight to the complacency of American culture.
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